Musings Part 3: Father and Son – what should the son do ?
Posted in: Older people's nursing | Specialist nursing areas
20-Jun-2011 2:40 pm
The scenario we are considering is specifically this one – only what we can read here is ‘true’, and nothing more or less:
A father is living at home, with only one family carer, who is his son. This is supposed to be an EoLC situation, so the father is expected to die within at most a year. Father has been seeing his GP and is, therefore, ‘sort of aware’ of treatment options and outcomes.
The father has not refused CPR, and is not considered to be sufficiently ‘near death’ for his death to be considered ‘expected’, or for a ‘clinical’ (i.e. for CPR to be predicted to fail) DNAR order to be in place: so there cannot be a DNAR ‘Instruction’ in place. The
expectations for a CPA could range from ‘unlikely’ to ‘almost sufficiently likely, for the situation to be an ’expected death‘’. The father is in some sort of discomfort, which he considers to be severe. Either pain, or something else, such as struggling to breathe. This
could be either continuous or episodic in nature.
One evening, the father initiates a conversation with ‘Son, I’m really struggling here. I really can‘t put up with this. Would it upset you, if I’m just allowed to die, if you think I have stopped breathing?‘. It ends with ’We‘ll sort this out with the GP tomorrow, but if I die before then, don’t phone 999‘.
The two questions, are these. Firstly, if the father seems to ‘die’/stop breathing/enter CPA before anybody else has become aware of the conversation, what should the son do ? Secondly, in that situation (when he thinks his dad is in the process of dying) what law applies to the son ?
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19-Dec-2011 2:39 pm
I think it is time to start posting ‘some answers’ to the ‘musings’ series.
I have received a variety of answers, and I will post them throughout the musings series, without repeating the ‘identifier section – this identifies the people whose answers I will be posting:
GP: NHS Rotherham, GP, 24 years. 14 = yes, and 15 = yes.
Consultant Doctor: NHS Medway, Consultant in Palliative Medicine, 27 years. 14 = yes, 15 = Yes – after training and if expected death.
Paramedic no 1: Wirral, Paramedic, lots. 14 = no, 15 = no. (please see note below).
Paramedic no 2: Wirral, Paramedic, 19 years. 14 = no, 15 = no.
Nurse no 1: NHS Gloucestershire, EoLC Facilitator, 26 years of nursing (4 years Community Nursing
(DN), 11 years Specialist Palliative Care, 5 years GSF/EoLC project work. 14 = Yes – palliative care degree, DN qualification, Masters module in health and social care, 15 = Yes as part of an EoLC Study Day.
Nurse no 2: NHS Gloucestershire, End of Life Care Education Facilitator, Medical nursing background, more recently in last 2 years specifically in end of life care education – care homes and community. 14 = diploma in palliative care, 15 = yes.
Nurse no 3: University Hospitals of Leicester. Palliative Care, Liverpool Care Pathway Facilitator/Macmillan Sister, 5 years. 14 = Completed the OU Death and Dying course, 15 = Not that I am aware of.
Nurse no 4: NHS Rotherham, Commissioning Manager (Registered Nurse), 28 years in NHS. 14 = yes, and 15 = yes.
And their answers to this question, were:
GP: He should do what his father asked him to do.
Consultant Doctor: Wait and call GP later to certify the death
Paramedic no 1: Preferably make a quick note in care package AND/OR do not call 999.
Paramedic no 2: Respect father’s wishes, in the event and contact and discuss with GP ASAP, call 999.
Nurse no 1: If an Advance Decision to Refuse Treatment (ADRT) has not been made and the father has not verbalized his wishes to a professional involved in his care then the son would have to call 999 as his conversation with his father has not been witnessed and not evidenced as “in his best interests”
Nurse no 2: respect his fathers wishes and not phone 999
Nurse no 3: Either ask his father to document his wishes in some form, or if possible contact the out of hours GP, and see if that would be an appropriate course of action
Nurse no 4: He should dial 999 as there is nothing formal that acknowledges his dads wishes. If he does nothing he will be in trouble as it will be classed as neglect also dad may have been having a bad day and if resuscitated may go on to live the rest of his life pain free, with dignity and in control by completing an advanced directive.
MY COMMENT – these answers do not seem to reveal a ‘unified belief set’ at work.


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