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7 reasons why nurses should care about the upcoming Francis Report

As a nurse why should you be bothered about the upcoming Francis Report? Here’s seven reasons why

  1. Whether you’re on the ward, in the community or sitting in a director’s office, the Francis inquiry is likely to impact on how essential nursing care is delivered in your organisation. It is expected to discuss areas including: neglect of privacy and dignity, continence care, pressure area care, hygiene, nutrition and hydration, safety, record keeping and communication
  2. There will be much talk of how nurse education and training needs to change, for example whether students need to be taught “compassion” and how much continual professional development registered nurses need to carry out each year
  3. If you’re a health care assistant or you work with health care assistants, the report could recommend tighter rules on delegation and regulation
  4. Patients and relatives may want to talk with you about the findings of the Francis Report and seek reassurance about the standards of care they are receiving
  5. The Francis Report will question – are you capable of providing compassionate care?
  6. Next week there will be an onslaught of public and media criticism of nurses. As a nurse you will need to communicate nursing’s core values and work to win back public confidence
  7. This report is your opportunity to discuss your concerns about standards of care and how core patient centred values can be embedded into health services

Do you want to keep up to date with the latest from the Francis Report into the Mid Staffordshire Foundation Trust? Visit our tailored Francis Report channel with the latest rolling news and analysis

Readers' comments (97)

  • tinkerbell

    i welcome the Francis report and hope it will be honest and frank about needs to be done to improve this disastrous situation.

    I am hoping that it will not be diluted or a whitewash that doesn't reflect the true reality.

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  • will there be any advice, guidance and support made to staff on how to safely report poor standards, poor staffing, poor skill-mix, uncaring attitudes. can we now be guaranteed that our concerns will be taken seriously, we will have a response from management when we submit incident reports, our staffing and skill-mix will be right, our patients will be cared for properly and our staff will be cared for properly. can we also now guarantee that managers at whatever level will be held accountable.

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  • It should not have come to this.

    Governments and managers need to take their substantial share of the blame. But nurses need to accept their part. How many refused to work under such dreadful conditions? How many took to the streets to expose what was happening and demand that it stop? Mid Staffs is only being talked about because it has been found out. This is happening elsewhere. Perhaps where you work. We are all accountable here and if we continue to do as little as we have in the past, it will never stop.

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  • we have tried everything, what else can we do, no-one is listening, we are at our wits end. can anyone help me and others like me to make nursing a good, proud profession like it used to be. every day I and my colleagues go home crying, we cannot cope any more but no-one seems to care.

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  • Anonymous | 31-Jan-2013 8:32 pm

    "we have tried everything"

    No we haven't.

    I have seen nurses do little other than supporting and perpetuating the silly working conditions and environments. Instead of taking breaks and working only their rostered hours, they slave on for free and play into the hands of management. They don't need to staff wards and other areas, because there are those who work hours extra for nothing!!

    Stop it. Dry your tears. Take your breaks every time you are due them, bury the management under a pile of incident forms by completing them every time an incident occurs, refuse to participate in audits and the completion of unnecessary paperwork, refuse to do anything superfluous that takes you away from patient care. I'll bet you and your colleagues have hundreds of ideas about how to do things better. Flood the trust CEO with emails outlining those ideas. Tell your patients and relatives to aim their complaints at named managers and trust CEOs, and ask them to 'please complain'. Go home on time. You are too valuable to your family, to your patients and to we, who are your colleagues. Look after yourself. Better for you, better for your patients.

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  • people often tell us to make sure we take our breaks and go home on time. if we take a break knowing that we are leaving the ward unsafely staffed what will happen to us. what happens if we go off the ward knowing that patients are needing help, are in a wet bed, need analgesia etc. What happens when we go home and have left just one trained nurse on the shift because of sickness/staff shortages?

    are we able to say "I went for my break, I went off duty on time" - what is the legal and moral position, does anyone know.

    what would you think if you were a patient and you wanted something but the nurse was on a break and there weren't enough staff left on the ward to help you?

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  • Anonymous | 1-Feb-2013 10:38 am

    Well supernurse I will never be able to match your dedication!

    The answer to your question is to make a list of when you and your collegues intend to take your break -----give it to your line manager ----problem solved -- it is the managers responsibility to ensure the ward is safe !

    Similarly ensure that your brain dead manager knows when your shift ends ! Tell them that at that time you are leaving !

    Simples ----now go do it !

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  • Anonymous | 1-Feb-2013 10:38 am

    whatever happens after your official working hours are finished it is not your responsibility. However, if you leave the ward with nobody to take over from you it is your responsibility to take this up with your manager and their responsibility to resolve the issue which may result in asking you to stay until a replacement is found.

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  • I used to try to do everything and stayed on to complete my documentation. If not done, the NMC or the Coroner, could rip us to pieces. Even when done; can they read it, does it make sense. Its a litigatious society nowadays.

    However, I'm reminded that nursing care is 24/7/365; we need to promptly hand over our patients. A fresh person can take responsibility of the patients, and provide better care than a tired person. However documentation of your care cannot be handed over. Another person can start outstanding/missing paperwork. They wouldn't know what happened on your shift and cannot sign for you. So this must also be done as part of and during the care of patients.

    I'm not sure, once you've handed over care; if you then stay behind (well passed a short duration to wrap up minor loose ends), I don't think you've covered if something goes wrong for you and/or affecting your colleagues or the patients, as; 1. you're tired + potentially unsafe, 2. its after your designated hours, 3. you're technically not supposed to be on-site (some staff will soon forget that and will rope you into more work, because you're an extra free pair of hands) and 4. you'll be completely knackered on the following day/night's shift possibly leading to impaired judgement and more errors.
    Will your patients thank you for your dedication when you make the odd mistake? No, they will rightly complain, take it up with the NMC for potentially causing harm or unsafe practice, or worse.

    Its good we try to look out for each other on our ward and stop this bad practice. If your ward, work area is short staffed, call for more staff, inform your line/site manager, if nothing happens escalate it and report the incident.

    You'd escalate a patient you had concerns about, so escalate unsafe working conditions. If its not reported, no one else will know, or have any obligation to do anything about it.
    Your manager, has overall responsibility of all patients on your ward, wouldn't want to deal with complaints of poor patient care either. Staff might be pulled from other wards, and if they're short, hopefully they'll do the right thing too for the safety of their patients and staff.

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  • Anonymous | 1-Feb-2013 10:38 am

    Firstly, you have identified the problems. But then the actions that you are taking to deal with these issues are actually very dangerous and fail completely to address them. If you do not have enough staff, the answer is NOT to work longer and with fewer breaks. You become tired, harrassed, frustrated, bitter and miserable. Your work will be of poorer quality. You are exposing your patients to much greater risk from mistakes and poor care delivered by tired and demoralised nurses. All the while, there is no proof about inadequate staffing levels being delivered to your manager. He/she does not need to act to rectify the situation, because as far as he/she is concerned, there is no problem. No. This mentality of simply continuing with the status quo, until 'someone else' comes along to rescue us, is half the reason we're are in our current situation.

    Nurses should be taking the lead here. Report every and all staffing issues (or any other problems affecting patient care) to the management, in writing, with copies to the most senior people in your organisation and your union. Stop living in fear. Unless it is an emergency, for which, any nurse would stay, you must take your breaks and go home. The manager is duty bound to stay and deal with staffing issues. Phone him/her if there are not enough staff and tell them to relieve you whilst you have a break. If they refuse, write it down and report it evry single time it occurs. If it is he/she who has to stay, you will be amazed at how quickly it would be resolved. Carrying on as you suggest is not caring. It is supporting a system which has created an environment of abuse and neglect of patients. That is criminal and nurses seriously need to look at their role here. Just wait for the Francis report. Nurses will have to come to terms with the fact that only a few nurses who saw what was going so horrifically wrong actually raised concerns. Many more were complicit because they lacked courage to stand with their colleagues.

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  • Another report, fine, but is any one listening to the answers from nurses?
    I feel no one really cares about nurses.
    The other week a carer was sitting and holding a patient hand as this carer felt the patient needed to feel some compassion from someone. The rest of the team was exhausted as they were running around doing every other job on a shift that did not have proper staff to patient ratio.
    The question is will you stay on and show compassion by giving time to a patient while two people are busting to go to the toilet and almost messing themselves?
    Who was showing more compassion, the nurses who were making sure the patients did not suffer the indignity of messing themselves or the carer sat holding the hand of patient?
    I was suprised to know how many nurses I personally know that are on antidepresant just so they can cope wih the job.
    My colleague was reported by a relative for causing them distress when she told them the ward was understaffed.
    My colleague was so stressed when she said that, then had to apologised to the relative for causing her distress.
    Nurses are not supported yet they give out all the time.
    The RCN is one unsupportive union I will be a fool to even consider to ever join them.
    I agree that nurses reflect the people in our society. So the more incompassionated nurses you meet, the more incompassionate our society is.

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  • if you report short-staffing to a manager and they ask you if you can stay on a bit longer to help out because there is no cover available what is the next immediate step.

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  • Anonymous | 1-Feb-2013 2:31 pm

    How about;

    "No. I have committments and I have made you aware of the situation. This is not an emergency. Your solution lies elsewhere and you are responsible. That's why you are the manager and get paid the big bucks. Now I don't want to see patient safety being comprimised, so I won't keep you from your task of finding the required staff for the next shift."

    What did you think was the next immediate step? For you to stay on and let the manager away with with his/her responsibilities...again? Nurses are supposed to be professional and autonomous practitioners, individually accountable for their actions in safeguarding their patients. Not snivelling little 'yes men' who tolerate harmful and dangerous environments.

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  • michael stone

    From what I reaed somewhere as 'predicted comments in the Francis report' (I think it was the Guardian), almsot nobody is going to be spared: senior management and regulators included.

    With luck, Francis will stress the 'the management was bullying staff and patietns into silence' aspect, and perhaps we can get a more open, honest, rapid and transparent system for raising concerns ! PERHAPS !

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  • Gosh! Another enquiry, another report, is it chaired by yet another titled person?

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  • Was he the right man for the job?

    "Robert Francis QC: the man behind the NHS Mid Staffs report

    'Formidable' QC who chaired the public inquiry into the Stafford hospital deaths does not pull his punches

    Denis Campbell, health correspondent

    The Guardian, Wednesday 30 January 2013 21.00 GMT"

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  • Anonymous | 1-Feb-2013 3:24 pm

    Up to 1,200 patients may have died needlessly and in appalling conditions in Mid Staffs NHS Trust. Management, systems and culture must take a share of the blame. But, nurses with few exceptions, appear to have done little to prevent these deaths. Do you think that is worthy of a silly, sarcastic little remark? Your attitude displays everything that is wrong with this profession. As far as I'm concerned, there had better be criminal proceedings as a result of this report.

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  • an unthinkable tragedy that precious and unique lives just like yours and mine, relatives and loved ones of others, lost or ruined through medical/nursing malpractice and organisational mismanagement, can never be recovered.

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  • tinkerbell

    there had better be criminal proceedings as a result of this report.Anonymous | 1-Feb-2013 3:24 pm

    I sure hope so too.

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  • There will be. This is the first case of corporate manslaughter in the history of the NHS.

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  • Seven reasons why the nursing times should re-direct its focus onto health management and politics at large, where it belongs:

    1. The entire situation was one of poor management and the permission of standards to decline. Basic nursing care takes time, resources and people. This and only this was the issue. Standards will always slip when one expects something to come from nothing.

    2. Nurse education does need to change but not because compassion was lacking. Rather the flimsy character trait of compassion relies on a house of cards and ideal circumstances on order to be evident. Again, nothing to do with us, rather the environment at Mid Staffs required compassion to be dropped in favour of nurses CHOOSING what can be done and what cannot.

    3.Healthcare assistants are not nurses therefore they cannot and will not be included in GUIDING OR DEFINING our profession. They are our assistants. Nothing more, nothing less.

    4. Most likely less than 1% of patients will have read the report compared to reading what the newspaper has summarized for them (read given them an opinion to adopt). The findings of this report are likely to be ignored as most will not fond it applies to their hospital. Managers will still preside over poor ideas and will rewarded for the ongoing destruction of the NHS.

    5. Compassion is not competence and compassionate care or any other kind cannot be performed if the environment does not allow it. It is up to government and management to work this one out. Do they do the right thing or the wrong thing. The closing of Lewisham hospitals key services suggests that the wrong thing for society is still the in vogue choice.

    6. EVERY week there is an onslaught on our profession. We are used to it. What does this publication do as a professional mouthpiece? Some might say nothing ay all. Core values are for corporations not people or professionals. We have a code of conduct. You may ask no more of us.

    7. We are be never asked our opinions about anything crucial or strategic. So if we are asked about this, we all kind of know it is simply to pay lip service to issues secondary to what we care about.

    Try as they might they cannot force us to bend over. This is a conspiratorial effort for governments and the media to attempt to persuade the general public that we don't deserve better pay and more influence in healthcare at large. They know that nurses could resolve every problem within a decade. They also know that all of us are against handing over large sections to friends of MPs simply because they went to school together and their business needs somewhere to start.

    That is the truth and it is painful to read, but read between the lines we must. What happened was tragic, but there is no way that it was not widely known by those in charge of that place that things were bad. It is not unusual, they were just caught as it was politically expedient.

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  • Anonymous | 1-Feb-2013 9:45 pm

    "Try as they might they cannot force us to bend over."

    Eh.... it is precisely because nurses bend over daily that 'They' were allowed to get away with it for so long. Stop blaming everyone else and ditch the delusional ranting. This report is everything to do with us. Unless and until nurses face up to the fact that they could and should have done more (and I don't just mean Mid Staffs), things will never change. The "A big boy did and ran away" mentality helps no one.

    Don't wait to be asked for your opinion. The reason nobody listens is because it is not being said loudly enough. Shout it out. Take to the streets. Be persistent and consistent.

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  • Anonymous | 31-Jan-2013 9:21 pm

    "Stop it. Dry your tears. Take your breaks every time you are due them, bury the management under a pile of incident forms by completing them every time an incident occurs, refuse to participate in audits and the completion of unnecessary paperwork, refuse to do anything superfluous that takes you away from patient care."


    BURY the management...BURY the beggars! HA!...That'll teach em!...Ha! The incompetent idiots! BURY THEM!!!!!!!....


    So go on then...fill in them forms - enough to bury them mind you...coz you filling in the forms ain't gonna take you away from your 'patient care' eh?..

    Good job you posted "Anonymously" that the name you will put on your incident forms?
    Coz if it is, then I'm gonna fill in an incident form about that!

    I've done my share of the forms and I can tell you that the "management" aren't buried.
    Why not help instead?

    You know...."be part of the solution, not the problem" kind of thing?

    As usual, there's lots of bitching here - enough to make sure we perpetuate the 'them and us' thing and ensure that nurses DONT unite coz it seems a lot of these posts are here to show how clever and better "anonymous" is than "anonymous".

    Use your name.
    Cheer up.
    Stop whinging, get your hands dirty and make a difference.

    Rant over.

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  • yes we can fill out forms and report staffing issues to our managers but the point is, if a patient requires analgesia, bedpan, walking to the loo, drink of water then who is going to do it if there are not enough staff and we want to go for a break. that is what many of us have trouble with, leaving a patient wanting something.

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  • Anonymous | 2-Feb-2013 12:39 pm

    what about your own needs after a very lengthy postponed loo break? do this too often and it could give rise to urinary retention which can become chronic, detrusor muscle spasm, a tracking urinary track infection to the kidneys, and even a Ca bladder!

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  • Anonymous | 2-Feb-2013 1:03 pm

    Anonymous | 2-Feb-2013 12:39 pm

    ... oh, and not to mention very painful renal calculi?

    ... and besides, how long would you have to wait to fix your hair and makeup?

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  • tinkerbell

    Anonymous | 2-Feb-2013 1:03 pm

    quite right. After spending 20 plus years not taking a loo break i got a kidney infection. Running around with the bladder the size of a beach ball or waiting until you are going to burst before taking a leak is not really going to help you remain continent in later life. Thankfully i recovered from my kidney infection but it took a months treatment of antibiotics to get a grip on it. Note to self. Don't wait until it's too late.

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  • tinkerbell

    Seven reasons why the nursing times should re-direct its focus onto health management and politics at large, where it belongs:

    Anonymous | 1-Feb-2013 9:45 pm

    Totally agree, nursing has completely lost it's focus. This is serious and should be our main focus. Until we get this right everything else is academic and inconsequential comment.

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  • tinkerbell | 2-Feb-2013 1:45 pm

    Anonymous | 2-Feb-2013 1:03 pm

    embarrassing too if you get caught out by an emergency!

    an elderly friend of mine once had an such a moment on the stairs of a café.

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  • Delusional ranting. I wish. Delusional is believing you could do more. Considering how limited our influence is I'm. Somewhat suprised that you consider more is possible with what we have to work with. That is delusion epitomised.
    What this person is saying is she doesn't do enough and identifies with the persona of the lazy nurse.
    I don't.

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  • Anonymous | 2-Feb-2013 2:42 pm

    Your rant was delusional.

    You are just a big part of the problem. The lack of aspiration and inability to accept responsibility is stunning, but typical of a nurse too lazy to get off her backside to change things for the better. When the likes of you is what we have to work with, it is indeed an uphill fight.

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  • Anonymous | 2-Feb-2013 12:39 pm

    Those are just excuses to do nothing.

    If you continue to do nothing, your patients will have to wait longer to be attended to and that will be your fault, because you knew about the short staffing and did nothing to address it.

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  • tinkerbell

    what's wrong with the occasional rant on NT?

    It's a release valve. Better than ending up on antidepressants. When you suppress more than you express you could be in trouble. Look on it as a service that NT are providing nurses if nothing else.

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  • michael stone

    Martin Barrow, Chris Smyth Times Feb 2nd 2013 page 12 (extracts) - a piece in which Dr peter Carter is quoted, and he/article said among other things:

    A repeat of the Mid Staffordshire hospital scandal, which led to the deaths of hundreds of patients, is inevitable, the head of Britain's nurses has warned.
    Peter Carter, chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing, told The Times that cuts in nursing staff, low morale and pressure to meet financial targets had created an atmosphere of fear, and put patients at greater risk of poor care and neglect. Hospital staff feared they would be victimised for raising the alarm over abuse and mistreatment, undermining efforts to detect failings within the NHS, he said.
    Dr Carter, whose organisation represents 400,000 nurses, midwives and support workers, said: "Will there be another Mid Staffs? Yes, sadly there will be. There are 1.2 million people employed in the NHS and there is a hospital in every town. It would be foolish to say everything in the garden is roses.
    "Mid Staffs cannot be an isolated incident. The fact is, the service is under huge strain. Trusts are not thinking intelligently about how they deliver care and are simply cutting the numbers of frontline staff. Our members have a personal and professional responsibility to raise concerns."

    Dr Carter told The Times: "The vast majority of patients still get good care, but that is no consolation to those who don't. Mid Staffs has got this massive profile now, but there have been many others like it ... Bristol Royal Infirmary, Basildon, Alder Hey. The report into Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells [where hundreds of patients died after an outbreak of the superbug C-difficile] is painful to read. On the wards there were beds that were eight inches apart ... what the hell were the managers doing, but also what was going on with the nursing culture? There was a culture of bullying and intimidation.

    "If the board had spent time walking the wards, talking to patients and staff, just doing their jobs, they may have saved hundreds of lives."

    I ASKED MANAGER/NOBODY 'do your senior managerial colleagues walk around the wards, and her answer was (from memory) 'only when there is a photo opportunity'.

    Dr Heather Wood, who investigated Mid Staffs, is on the front page of today's Daily telegraph:

    She said there was a "horrific culture" of bullying, with local managers being directly threatened by their superiors that they must meet targets and that ultimately directors of finance were in charge isntead of doctors.

    Dr Wood also said the problems were a direct result of the "ruthless implementation of targets regardless of the cost downstream that came from the top, from No 10 and the department of Health".

    Almost none of the professionals, are going to come out looking good !

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  • Between 2005 and 2008 somewhere between 400 and 1,200 patients are estimated to have died unnecessarily due to appalling standards of care. The first Francis report, published in 2010, listed historic understaffing of nurses as one of a number of reasons for poor care. It is no longer excusable for nurses to tolerate under staffing. It is also counter-productive and cheap to accuse those who advocate taking correct and appropriate measures to tackle these situations, as "having the persona of a lazy nurse". That's a bullying tactic, but quite typical in this profession.

    I fully expect that, once the Francis Report is in the public domain, the Nursing profession will be the subject of great scrutiny and will be asked to answer for the lack of action by nurses themselves in Mid Staffs. Throwing your hands in the air and saying, "Nobody listens to us", when you have not raised your voice in complaint or even completed an incident form (which many haven't); or simply listing excuses for why you haven't attempted to protect your patients, simply won't wash.

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  • Maybe that's the plan, nurses work without breaks. One arm has an IV infusion for hydration, attached to a meds trolley/zimmer. Urinary catheter + BMS in at your other ends. Stashed in your trolley is packets of biccies + choco bars for energy/munch and cold cup of tea to wet your lips.

    Compassionate care doesn't mean we're glued to patients' 24/7.
    It may mean we're away periodically, dealing with other responsibilities, including looking after our own health + safety, to ensure ALL our patients are cared for based on their needs, not wants.

    At court, judges will decide our fate. They will be clued up on this and other reports to help form their decisions.
    So no messing with any QCs, wigs or no whigs ;o)

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  • Studelicious | 2-Feb-2013 3:04 am

    And your name is?

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  • Maybe patients dying in dreadful conditions isn't enough to shake up the profession. But if it isn't, then I despair. Well over half a million nurses in this country. We should be on the streets protesting against conditions which facilitate such abuse.

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  • Studelicious | 2-Feb-2013 3:04 am
    Anonymous | 31-Jan-2013 9:21 pm

    Yeah excellent! I speak from experience. As a result taking action, we now have additional 2.6 WTE trained staff in our ward and a new manager (although the crap old one only got a sideways move).We became a thorn in the side of management. One our patients took our concerns for patient care to the local paper and told it from his view. Hence the anonymity.... a bit like yourself. (Having a pseudonym and a silly avatar doesn't tell anyone who you are, you know.)

    Our patients are safer and receive better care, because understaffing is no longer an issue in our ward. We acted as a group and got a result. Now you can continue apace with your petty little remarks and endless list of excuses, but are your patients any better off for it? I doubt it.

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  • No my post was neither delusional nor ranting and is in fact you who is the problem. You are projecting your mediocre nursing ability onto those like myself who attempt to do a job we are more or less prevented from doing well. I can guess that you are the type of person who is average at everything whereas I excel.
    You and I cannot accept responsibility for others. That I understand whereas you do not get ir. You should leave the conversation now as you are too uninformed and too unenlightened to participate

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  • In the light of the upcoming Francis Report, I know that there will probably be a case for Corporate Manslaughter, but not being a lawyer, will this mean that individuals could be held to account? I hope so. But I think that some nurses may also find themselves in the firing line, particularly nurse managers.

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  • Anonymous | 2-Feb-2013 4:23 pm

    I have no intention of going anywhere in face of such delusional ranting and extremely poor judgement.

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  • Anonymous | 2-Feb-2013 4:23 pm
    everyone has a right to participate in the discussion at hand. even you.

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  • You mean in the face of your delusional ranting. Phew your analysis of the situation is based on the most slovenly and pedestrian understanding of nursing. Where I see processes and systems, you see bad people and place yourself on an imaginary pedestal. If only other people were like me, you think. Me. The paragon of virtue.
    I laugh at your febrile lack of knowledge and poor grasp on healthcare as a whole. Until you can see the big picture you will always assume that is only bad characters that tarnish our profession rather than sequences and causes. That is why your whiny moaning won't carry you any further than criticism of people and situations you neither know or deign to understand. It us this lack of depth that keeps you in a nice tidy box for everybody to move you around in.

    I cannot take you seriously at all mommy bear. Not at all.

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  • Anonymous | 2-Feb-2013 4:42 pm

    "I cannot take you seriously at all mommy bear. Not at all."

    Then, try not to get so upset, dear.

    By all means continue with your ranting, moaning and complete lack of solutions. You are only a problem for yourself.....and unfortunately, those being looked after in your malfunctioning environment, which you obviously tolerate.

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  • And of course everyone has a right. But not everybodies old fashioned ideals have value any more

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  • My environment is perfectly fine mostly because my clinical areas are stocked with modernist and scientifically minded nurses who dont feel the need to identify with outdated stereotypes or play the guilt game with each other. You assume too much.

    I know you know you have lost hence your broken record style of posting. If carefully worded arguments means ranting to you then by all means please go on. But do find out the meaning of rant just to satisfy that you know what the word means.

    I tolerate nothing but then again I've got the halls to challenge and change... which obviously you do not. Sad really.

    The only problem i have is people with battered wife syndrome like yourself who constantly think 'it must be me who's to blame'.
    Anybody with an ounce of knowledge of the history of British nursing knows that this was a long time coming. So you know, do some reading around the subject and come back to me. I'm very forgiving

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  • Also there's nothing in my postings that implies in upset. Again you're projecting

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  • Anonymous | 2-Feb-2013 4:28 pm

    We were discussing this at work yesterday. Forgive the copying and pasting, but this is what I got from the HSE site.

    "The Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Act 2007 is a landmark in law. For the first time, companies and organisations can be found guilty of corporate manslaughter as a result of serious management failures resulting in a gross breach of a duty of care. The Act, which came into force on 6 April 2008, clarifies the criminal liabilities of companies including large organisations where serious failures in the management of health and safety result in a fatality."

    Reading on a bit, it stated that,
    "Prosecutions will be of the corporate body and not individuals, but the liability of directors, board members or other individuals under health and safety law or general criminal law, will be unaffected. And the corporate body itself and individuals can still be prosecuted for separate health and safety offences."

    It will be interesting to see how specific will be the evidence in the report. I find it difficult to conceive that some managers won't be held to account. But I wonder how far reaching the consequences will be for all.

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  • Anonymous | 2-Feb-2013 5:00 pm

    "My environment is perfectly fine mostly because my clinical areas are stocked with modernist and scientifically minded nurses who dont feel the need to identify with outdated stereotypes or play the guilt game with each other. You assume too much."


    "I tolerate nothing but then again I've got the halls to challenge and change...."

    From your original post, Anonymous | 1-Feb-2013 9:45 pm

    "7. We are be never asked our opinions about anything crucial or strategic. So if we are asked about this, we all kind of know it is simply to pay lip service to issues secondary to what we care about."

    You've taken to arguing with yourself and your own points! Now go and do some reading, reflect and come back with at least one coherent point. Your aggression is getting in the way of reason. And you'd be better with 'balls' not 'halls'

    This isn't about blame. It is about accepting the responsibility to change things and acting upon it. But I realise that you are struggling with the concept.

    Unsuitable or offensive?

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