Mid Staffs nurses face fresh criticism after Facebook food fight

Readers' comments (41)

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  Sandra Joyce Powell | 23-Apr-2010 8:15 am

  hello I am sorry to say that i find this appalling.this is the result of Nurses being educated in universities instead of being trained. A trained nurse would never think 9f behaving this way ,they regarded them selves as respectable .Lets get our nurses back.
  i believe that sending the soon to be nurses to universities was a ploy to cut down on training costs. When i was doing my training i got a living wage .the university nurses only get a bursary it is ridiculous to expect them to work for so little money. so you pay peanuts you get monkeys.
  
  

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• Anonymous | 23-Apr-2010 8:29 am

  While I agree that the training should go back to the "good old days" i dont feel that this incident has a reflection on how they were trained. This incident just goes to show how nurses these days have a lack of respect for themselves, there profession and there patients. Also lets not forget the breach of confidentiality. Lets get back to basics and care for our patients and watch our Ps & Qs

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• Anonymous | 23-Apr-2010 8:54 am

  I agree this is no reflection on where nurses are educated. In fact to be making a call for eduction to return to only a clinical setting is not a good idea if students are going to educated by nurses that behave this way.

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• Anonymous | 23-Apr-2010 8:58 am

  So you guys never put anyone in the bath at the end of their placement or if they were leaving the ward. You never played a practical prank on anyone. The duckings and the pranks were also part and parcel of the good old days and were a welcome relief in a stressful days hard manual work. Apple pie beds, going for a long stand, a bucket of steam and off to CSSD for some sterile fallopian tubes. Patients joined in the fun and played along if required.There were more pranks and bits of fun in the 'good old days' which could now be described as unprofesisonal behaviour than there is now.
  I dont think we are in a position to comment as we were not there. And clinical area could mean anywhere on the ward if you want it to - doesnt mean it was in patient view. It would need to be seen in context before you could judge. I am sure the management of the failing trust would welcome the discreditation of their staff as it removes the spot light of thier inadequate management and diverts the blame nicely onto 'unprofessional' clinical staff.
  (oh and for the record I do not work there and never have so there is no bais in my comments - just fair play to all)

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• Anonymous | 23-Apr-2010 9:32 am

  Nurses have traditionally played pranks on each other when someone is leaving but the issue here is where the incident took place and the use of nhs materials.

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• Anonymous | 23-Apr-2010 9:40 am

  Sandra nurses who go to university are trained and educated or is your argument that no trained nurses have entered the profession for the last ten years?

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• Anonymous | 23-Apr-2010 9:55 am

  This is truly a sad story in more ways than one. I have seen and heard many tales of 'nurses trained in the old way'and some of the 'pranks' they used to get up to to relieve the tension (and on night shifts) the boredom of their jobs. All of which, like this one were a harmless bit of fun intended to hurt nor upset anyone. Unfortunately in this day and age when nurses have striven to be recognised as professionals, and paid accordingly, this harmless fun seems to b#have become unacceptable to many. I workin the operating theatre and regularly take patients back to wards and units where too few nurses are caring for too many patients and are stressed and cross. After working like this for any length of time it would make anyone angry, frustrated and uncaring. So what that they were having a food fight ! As long as they cleared it up afterwards, what was the harm ? And as for it being a use of NHS resources, how much unpaid overtime had these two (and countless others) given to their trust over their careers ? Nrses are not Angels ! They are just people no matter how and where they trained, Yes, there are some nurses (and doctors, and managers, and porters etc... etc...) who are not fit to be in the job because they are cruel and uncaring, but there are many more who are just at the limits of their own physical and mental resources. Everyone needs a stress reliever, for me it's running, for others it's throwing food , two ODP's of my aquaintance fashioned a baseball bat and ball out of all kinds of stuff and would play up the theatre corridor or in recovery when it was quiet, no-one suffered. I agree that in light of the report on the Mid Staffs Trust, this photo was ill-timed, but let's keep it in perspective people !

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• Anonymous | 23-Apr-2010 9:58 am

  I apologise for the typos in the last comment,my laptop keyboard is a bit tempremental !

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• Anonymous | 23-Apr-2010 10:25 am

  I am angry with the first comment as I was educated at a university but I regard myself as an good staff nurse with good principles and would never dream of behaving in that way. I had no choice but to be trained in this way. This story is just a reflection of the individuals' characters and NOT the way they were trained. As nurses we are taught to treat everyone the same and not judge anyone, so generalising in this way is hypocritical.

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• Anonymous | 23-Apr-2010 10:39 am

  to Sandra Joyce Odell
  I was a mature Nurse Student 5 years ago and I do not consider myself to be a 'monkey'. I understand the need for evidence based practice and on placements would be told by nurses who had been nursing for many years, "the old ways are the best", or "forget everything they've taught you in university,this is how we do it here". To you Sandra Joyce Odell I say dont criticise nurse education. I feel very proud to be a nurse in the NHS and will always do my very best to care for my patients using best practice ,because the old ways are not always the best (research based).

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• Anonymous | 23-Apr-2010 10:51 am

  Sandra I do not agree with your view regarding university educated nurses. I have a nursing degree and during my student placements it was always commented on that my clinical skills and professional attitude were exemplary. I would suggest this was more to do with me as an individual and not the way I was trained. Those who behave inappropriately or who deliver sub-standard care, in my opinio would do so regardless of how they were trained. The paying peanuts to get monkeys comment is offensive and you cannot generalise in such a way.
  Posting this kind of thing on facebook is stupid especially given the issues at North Staffs. As professionals we all need to be mindful of posting comments and photos on sites such as these.

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• P. Damien | 23-Apr-2010 11:53 am

  Sandra really? ! This is in no way a reflection of where nurses are trained. I was educated in university and give my patients nothing but exemplerary care (i hope). I would like to think that is a reflection of how i was brought up by my parents and my general make-up as a human being in how i apply morals and standards to my life.

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• Anonymous | 23-Apr-2010 11:57 am

  I agree with Sandra. Standards of nursing care really have taken a nose-dive over the last 10 years. I too blame universities who are churning out thousnads of uncaring nurses lacking in compassion. I myself trained in the 70's and discipline was much harsher then with matrons who acted like matrons and sister's who acted like sisters and above all staff nurses who were proud to be called a nurse and be at the arm of the doctor.

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• Anonymous | 23-Apr-2010 12:21 pm

  The issue isn't as much about the actual incident as much as it was brought to public attention by a social networking site. More and more people are discovering that far from being an area of enhanced free speech it is fertile ground for employers to bring pressure to bear on workers where they feel it is justified. Social networking is not dangerous - the people who post the content are.
  
  In addition I was a nurse for twenty five years and there were dozens of practical jokes or hi jinks played - often involving patients. For crying outloud I was even subjected to a grottagram on the ward when I left one job, did that make people unprofessional? Of course not. Perspective is required, and things will get dragged out of perspective when things are already going badly in a Trust and when events become more public. And for the record, I was not University educated so jolly japes pre-date Project 2000 by a long long way.

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• Anonymous | 23-Apr-2010 12:22 pm

  So universities control the way sisters and matrons behave? Funny because I thought it was the NHS that they worked for.
  
  University education isn't perfect but it isn't the route of all evil that gets suggested every time something goes wrong.
  Just remember every "bad nurse" that qualifies has passed their placements during their training - in practice not the university.
  
  Until as a profession we take ownership of our students on placement and ensure that they witness and learn from good practice nothing will change.

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• Trish | 23-Apr-2010 12:27 pm

  A food fight in a clinical area! Was it just someone throwing a bread roll or was a real mess made? If the latter, how easy was it to clean up?
  I'm not a nurse but work in a hospital. I don't think that the behaviour of these nurses has anything to do with where they trained or how they were trained. My concern is that this immature behaviour might lead to a lack of trust by patients in the nurses' ability to perform their duties and would therefore reflect adversely on their professionalism. The types of 'pranks' mentioned by others above were relatively harmless, this was potentially rather more serious.
  

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• Anonymous | 23-Apr-2010 12:41 pm

  move with the times... I hope both nurses were issued written warnings. V unprofessional. And no, I am not initially uni based. And yes, we are on the forefront of a crumbling health system. Wake up.

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• Anonymous | 23-Apr-2010 12:58 pm

  Also, health and safety of staff and public. That is serious. In view to rules and regulations, Occ health and safety and safety and well being of pts is a much needed legal requirement. So, on the point of hosp v's uni based training, what does it matter. Why is this discussion being focused on method of training. WE are all 'professionals'.... we are in the 21st centuary.... not a kindy play ground.

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• Anonymous | 23-Apr-2010 12:59 pm

  Putting this on a public site was either stupid or the ultimate in trouble causing
  
  Again I say - if you werent there or havent seen the pictures - you cant comment. It might have been in the staff room - we dont know
  
  Serious - to who ??? lack of trust by patients - possible - or even in the right context they might have thought it funny ??
  
  Linked to the way nurses are trained ? I dont think so.
  
  Clean it up - Im sure they did.
  
  Strict Sisters or Matrons in the 70s - still threw you in the bath when you were leaving and could have a laugh.
  I am a Matron and there is a time and a place for serious professional behaviour - but there is also room the let off steam and have a laugh - if not we would all crack up - we have very stressful jobs and we are human too.
  

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• K WHENT | 23-Apr-2010 1:13 pm

  this whole issue is about the use of facebook! the food fight- whilst not professional but as someone else has commented- we do not know to what extent this was, where it was and whether the staff were on a break away from the patient area- it is the fact that it was entered onto the web.
  the NMC has offerred guidence on the use of social networking- maybe this needs to be more explicit for some.
  As a scout leader, we use facebook but have a differrent log in name for the young members to be friends with- this allows us to regulate what we put on for them to see- the adult conversations and personal pictures are then kept as just that- whilst the young members can share with us and we can share appropriate materials and conversations with them.
  
  maybe the NMC should take advise from such organisations

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