All new nurses must have degrees

Readers' comments (113)

• Belinda Bushnell | 12-Nov-2009 10:22 am

  I think this is a great idea. Individual nurses and the professional as a whole can only benefit. A degree-only profession gives us more credibility, and it will make it much harder for doctors, managers etc to restrict nurses' development

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• Craig Harrison | 12-Nov-2009 11:24 am

  I really disagree with this. I feel that 'criteria' will exclude potentially fantastic nurses from being able to care for patients. Nursing is a practical 'hands on' profession and degree led courses focus 'too much' and academia. Most nursing practise has been doctor led without problem. Through my experience, doctors tend to have quite poor communication skills and it is usually left upon the nurse to allow the patient to understand. In increasing the entry requirement for uni, I too believe will 'lead to a narrowing of the diversity of backgrounds nurses currently came from and, as a result, mean the profession was less reflective of the society it cared for'. I know some fantastic Diploma, enrolled nurses who are not only a credit to their profession, but would put many degree qualified nurses to shame with their excellent practise. Widening participation within nursing leads to increased empathy across practise, a fundamental quality needed.
  
  A worried nurse - (degree level if it makes may point more valid).

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• Mike Burton | 12-Nov-2009 1:26 pm

  Dame Christine Beasley states that this level qualification would give nurses 'the real ability to think and make decisions'. She may find that nurses currently do make these decisions on a daily basis - degree or diploma or enrolled.
  
  If she is stating this because there is a plan to give nurses more autonomy - but only if you have a degree - I fear it will fail in its aim and only assist in driving wedges between staff, creating more tiers in the future (not registered, registered and super registered).
  
  I agree with Craig's points about too much academia and the abilty for the nurse to translate medical jargon and prognosis into real life meanings being essential.
  
  A degree for higher grades yes; or achieved as an optional extra, if you didnt do it first, is the way to go.
  
  I don't believe the medics would be happy to give too much to the nurses unless it was technical - IVs, IVABx, cannulas, ECGs etc.
  
  Docs will always have the decision making ability and nurses will follow - until the maternal/paternal balance is achieved.

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• Anonymous | 12-Nov-2009 1:43 pm

  I agree with Craig and Mike. We are missing a wealth of inviduals who unless they can afford to go to university to obtain a degree will not be able to become nurses.
  If l had orginally obtained a degree before i started nursing l certainly wouldn't be nursing now. Who wants to work crap hours, low wages and staff shortages, low chance of a higher grade, when they have a degree.
  A friend of mine is actually training at present and will come out with a nursing degree and very minimal patient contact.
  Remember Project 2000?

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• sue Hannan | 12-Nov-2009 2:23 pm

  As a tutor in a sixth form college who is also an RGN I think this is going to lead to some excellent young people who would make great nurses, being barred from the profession. Many students whom I teach would make great nurses but don't necessarily have the academic ability to gain a place on a degree programme. The Diploma route has always been an option that is welcomed by young people and enables somre really dedicated students to get to university and achieve their ambition of becoming a nurse.

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• Anonymous | 12-Nov-2009 3:06 pm

  So now we just await news on the funding issue...

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• Graham Farley | 12-Nov-2009 3:59 pm

  There are three integral elements to ensuring we have equipped the effective Nurse for the future. The degreee programme will help to ensure that they have the necessary knowledge and application of this knowledge for critical thinking and decision making purposes. The other two important attributes are the dexterious practical skills that are required and the emotional intelligence for them to practice at a much higher level.

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• Christine Stevenson | 12-Nov-2009 4:01 pm

  I support those that have commented that a whole wealth of potentially excellent nurses will be left out in the cold by this decision.
  
  I would have been one of them.
  
  As a specialist cardiothoracic nurse with over 23 years experience I worked my way from EN to RGN to ENB 249 and now a Diploma in Health service management and a BSc in Nursing practice at 48, through the RCN.
  
  I am a bit dissapointed that I would have missed being allowed into a profession I feel is my vocation and would not give up no matter how bad things got.
  
  I learnt along the way and my time spent at the lower qualified levels of nursing I know has has made me a better nurse with an expanse of knowledge and experience that I would not have otherwise acheived.
  
  Whilst I do agree we should aim for degree Level I think entry into nursing only at that point will do nursing a disservice.
  
  

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  lesley_frater@hotmail.com | 12-Nov-2009 4:01 pm

  Although some people will not have the academic qualifications to enter nursing when it becomes a degree only profession, this unfortunately is a given and the only way to go if we want to be seen as a true profession not a vocational career! Change always causes concern from those who trained in a different manner. UK nurse education lagging behind other countries regarding degree nursing. It is important that this 4 year nursing degree course includes anatomy, physiology and prepares nurses not just for the wards but for the generic roles that are currently being planned. It is time to look forward and stop looking backward through rose-tinted glasses at the good old days, which incidentally was very medical model with nurses seen as doctors handmaidens, is that what you really want to return to?

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• Anonymous | 12-Nov-2009 4:19 pm

  Lesley Frater has put it so well I do not need to add anything. Time we went forward!

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• marcia robinson | 12-Nov-2009 4:22 pm

  Nursing is practical, having a degree will not improve patient care. A degree is about writing essays and referencing. I work with nurses who have two degrees but do not even know what is normal body temperature. They have excellent computer skills but lack oral communication skills or simple people skills. A degree coupled with lots of time in practice area with clinical instructors is the way to go
  
  Marcia

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  Malcolm Chalk BA, RN | 12-Nov-2009 4:41 pm

  I believe that degree nursing is the eventual way to go; although at many universities, diplomas in nursing are hardly different from the the degree discipline, and are in fact a fare cop out for those whom cannot afford to do the means tested degree.

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• Stuart Taylorson | 12-Nov-2009 4:57 pm

  I totally disagree with the nursing as a degree only profession at the end of the day many nurses who try to get into the profession are barred because of the requirements needed to become a student nurse. Many people don't want a degree they do the job because they enjoy looking after people and get a lot more from that, also many nurses really don't want to be mini managers with reams and reams of paperwork they want to do what florence did make patients lives better during illness and helping them along the road to recovery, why do you need a degree to follow a vocation

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• Anonymous | 12-Nov-2009 5:03 pm

  No-one questions the fact that all other health care professionals are graduates. If nursing is functioning as I feel the profession should, then it is pivotal to care, co-ordinating everyone else. Why are we even having the debate?! As a fairly ancient nurse I "caught" up by studing for a degree as a ward sister. The knowledge I gained enhanced my skill in all aspects of care beyond question.

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• Anonymous | 12-Nov-2009 5:10 pm

  I am not looking back at the good old days regarding nurse training and being a handmaiden to a doctor. In fact I had hoped that on realising that doctors often now have a reputation for being lacking in communication skills and for example, having to introduce QOF to force GP to act appropriately in providing basic patient care, it enforces that acaedemic qualifications are not a measure of a 'can do' attitude.
  
  I failed O levels at school, and failed 6 modules in nursing because I think differently and often more laterallly than closed scope written examinations allow me to express at Level 1 or 2. I use Level 3 and M level modules that better suits my ability to express what I know.
  
  I am now an experienced and successful (ish) practice nurse running nurse led clinics in many areas often referred to by the GPs which is rewarding. However, even having two degrees has not given me any clout in choosing my own professional development as GPs in particular just choose to ignore that which does not suit them to hear or acknowledge.
  
  Learning at the higher level has just created more frustration and awareness of areas I could do so much more in, yet have no control over or power to change.
  
  Two of the most 'can do' nurses I have worked with were HCAs!

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• Anonymous | 12-Nov-2009 5:10 pm

  A degree course and nurses registering without required skill are not necessarily related. I believe that clinical skills should be learnt from clinically based staff. If nurses register without the required skill level, then we only have ourselves to blame.

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• jack | 12-Nov-2009 5:10 pm

  I agree with some of the above camments. Is there a correlation between passing university level exams and problem solving and organizing time and great assessment / communication skills and...
  I would like to see the evidence. One of the glitches in the degreed nurse in Canada is that people who typically foccus on degrees are aiming at teaching, research, admin or management positions. Somehow during the training the concept of (capital N) Nursing seems to be denegrated. The idea of caring becomes a thing to be applauded rather than emulated and develop a proficiency in. Personally, I would like to see one of the main entrance requirements to a Nursing Degree to be a more than successful completion of Registeration exam (I think it was called State Certification there) plus 3 to 5 years of Nursing experience (work that is hospital or community based) such that the nurse's employer can recommend entry into University.

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• Sandra Pritchard | 12-Nov-2009 5:12 pm

  I agree with with Sue Hannann comment. i know that if i wiuld be considering doing my training then I would not have the acamdemic skill to do so. as Stuart Taylorson I also see Nursing as a vocation, and that with others comments where will the nursing care go? i see myself as a hands on RMN and believe it is up to the individual nurse to go for a degree or a diploma.

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• Anonymous | 12-Nov-2009 5:20 pm

  Only two weeks ago (NT, 27th Oct) there was an article reporting that a number of NHS Trusts were replacing trained nurses with lower paid unregistered nurses (band 4). This new role was seen by some as providing an opportunity for dedicated HCAs who were not attracted by the more 'academic' side of nursing to progress their career, whilst remaining at the patient's bedside. What will happen to those would be nurses who would rather not study to degree level? Will not even more tiers be introduced? I am not from a nursing background, but it appears to me that there the nursing profession is being pulled in several directions at once and I wonder where quality and safe patient care really comes into it.

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• sandra ravenscroft | 12-Nov-2009 5:25 pm

  i qualified 4 years ago at the age of 39, i had to go to college to get the gcse's i needed to apply as i did not have enough to carry over from school. if it had been a degree course then i would have had to get A levels which i would not have been able to do, i am now working towards my degree. i believe that less 'mature' students will apply because of this, therefore less people with 'life' skills, this will be a shame.

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