Confusion over Tory job guarantee for nurses

4 May 2010 | By Charlotte Santry

The Conservatives have suggested that every newly qualified nurse could be guaranteed a year’s employment if their party is elected this week.

Shadow health secretary Andrew Lansley told the Royal College of Nursing’s annual congress last week it was “outrageous” that some student nurses were unable to find work after qualifying.

He said it was “a waste of great talent and a waste of public resources” and that was why he wanted “every nurse entering the profession coming out of nursing education to have a one year preceptorship in order to establish themselves in the profession”.

His remarks led to speculation over whether he was saying the NHS should employ every newly qualified nurse or merely supporting existing plans for universal preceptorships.

When Nursing Times asked the Conservatives if Mr Lansley wanted nurses’ first year of employment to be guaranteed, a spokesman responded: “Yes, we want to look into how we can make sure nurses are guaranteed a year of work after they qualify.”

The spokesman said the idea was “floated” in the party’s nursing consultation. However, that document refers only to preceptorships.

Mr Lansley’s comments have sparked concern that trusts could be forced to employ nurses signed off as competent by another organisation, whether they agree with that assessment or not.

King’s College London national nursing research unit director Peter Griffiths said it would be “very challenging” to force trusts to employ newly qualified nurses who may have been signed off by other organisations.

Last week Nursing Times revealed huge problems with student assessment, with more than a third of nurse mentors admitting they had passed students despite having concern about their abilities.

A Council of Deans of Health spokeswoman said the Conservatives’ nursing consultation had revealed “confusion” about preceptorships. She added that specifying a particular length of time for such schemes was “unhelpful”, as people’s rates of learning are different.

“It is important to ensure that preceptorship is not locked in to any regulation or revalidation requirements,” she said.

“If preceptorship is to be made mandatory, this should not be in response to the incorrect assumption that new registrants are not competent and should not be in any way tied in to the move to all-graduate nursing, implying graduates are not fit for purpose.”

Readers' comments (24)

Anonymous | 5-May-2010 8:26 am
I urge all nurses do not vote Tory. For those of you old enough, with long memories, to remember the 18 years of cut backs under the Thatcher and Major leaderships. It would be a dangerous and slippery slope for the NHS to oblivion! You think your jobs are unsafe now? You think your resources are minimal now? Just wait for Cameron and his cronies get in.
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Anonymous | 5-May-2010 9:59 am
i remember what the tories did to the NHS thats why it is in a state now. staffing levels omg will be bad, money will be reduced in training, nurses pay will not rise. Also there will be a north & south , and privatisation he we come. Poor areas will see a two-tier system nurses think they got it bad now wait till the Tories get in. Yes i do remember what it was like nurses who have just qualified there will be a hard road for you. less nurses more support workers not that i am knocking support workers they do a fab job NHS could not manage without them. But nurses are accountable and there are nursing jobs to do on a busy ward that support workers cant do. so nurses and support workers will be so stressed out, i can just see it happening. Tories look after their own poor to stay poor and the rich to get richer.Also there will be a south and north divide, and privatisation he we come. And finally what will happen to our pensions which we have worked hard for i can see them touching that too. we are an easy to target for the tories.
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mike | 5-May-2010 10:01 am
Anonymous above, 5-May-2010 8:26 am, if you were intelligent enough to actually look at the policies of the current parties you might realise that Thatcher isn't actually a part of ANY of them!!!!

You cannot judge a party on the past! I am sick and tired of the attitude of 'I will never vote tory because I remember thatcher' or 'I've always voted Labour so I always will regardless!'

This clueless, short sighted attitude is pathetic and ridiculous!

You have to use a bit of intelligence and LOOK AT THE POLICIES OF ALL THE CURRENT PARTIES, and base your decision on that!

If you want to talk about the current party in power, which is the only party where it is logical to judge them on performance, how about the money wasted on middle management, trust directors and non job idiots, how about the rapid and sneaky privatisation of the NHS, how about the cutting of beds in the new polyclinics, how about the fact that there are thousands of newly qualified nurses who cannot get a job because the trusts will not hire them, despite the fact that all wards are chronically understaffed, how about the pay cut nurses have been forced to take?

For gods sake! I'm starting to think there should be an IQ test before you are allowed a vote!

If this suggestion is genuine, then I think it is a fantastic thing. It took me months after graduating to find a job, (and only 20 something of us were hired out of over 450 who attended the trust wide exams/interviews) and I know many trained Nurses personally who aren't working as a Nurse but have been forced to take jobs in Tesco's or other non jobs just to survive! How is that not an absolutely insane situatiuon?

I would argue this alone would make me vote Conservative if I was a student Nurse again.
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Anonymous | 5-May-2010 10:02 am
Nurses Vote Vote Vote each and every one of you keep tories out please if we want to save our NHS!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Anonymous | 5-May-2010 10:11 am
well i remember when Tories were in when i qualified and there was no nursing jobs then. I remember when a year later i got six months contract no holiday pay no sickness pay i remember and i will always remember that i could not feed my family, my husband a miner on strike we got no money to feed my babies yes i rememeber when hospitals became Trusts and there was no money in the pot to pay the nurses so sorry if i have upset you but i will always remember the dark days of the Tories and i will never change my mind.
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Anonymous | 5-May-2010 11:53 am
good comment from the person saying about the nurses having to work in tescos. I do not like how the nhs has become with too many managers and IT consultants- not enough frontline staff. I want the tories to get rid of that.
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Anonymous | 5-May-2010 6:12 pm
I also qualified under Tory rule and was told we need the nurses but have no money to pay you. Out of a class of 32, 3 nurses were offered posts in our training hospital, the rest of us went far and wide I come from the north west and my first job was in London.During my time as a student we were paid and I was helping my family as my dad spent 2 years out of work and mum only part time, it was a case of helping were you could including throwing money into the miners buckets. I don't need an IQ test to vote some pains don't go away and some parties don't change. I have been involved in student nurse placements and I am responsible for hiring staff , some nurses should only be working in Tescos as they do not have clinical skills or initiative to work as accountable practitonersand that is also a painful fact.
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Anonymous | 5-May-2010 10:03 pm
Thank god people remember the tories of the thatcher years and the devastation they wrought to everyone except the rich. It scares the hooey out of me to think they might get in again and wreck people's lives and so needlessly. David Cameron seems to have missed the irony of his 'big society' and his policies that will knacker it.
to the poster who thinks the tories are no longer thatcherite you are severely mistaken. The tory philosophy of survival of the fittest is outmoded, unkind, uncompassionate and borne of fear and mistaken understanding. It has no place particularly in a healthcare service.
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Anonymous | 5-May-2010 10:58 pm
I dont get why nursing graduates are not guranteed a job for so so no. of years like the medical students are. I know we are not important as but we are still important, even 1/2 year experience in an area we like would be good.

regarding whos gonna win, well, before parties win they ALWAYS say that they will do this and that to increase their votes but afterwards, they do nothing but talk grabage. I wish we had Obama no. 2 here. Britiain is truelly falling apart!
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mike | 5-May-2010 11:10 pm
I cannot believe some of the comments here.

Even now newly qualified Nurses CANNOT find jobs, and some trusts are even asking for voluntary redundancies without replacing the posts, there are countless problems with our profession and the NHS, and yet some imbeciles are STILL blaming the tories?

IT IS LABOUR WHO HAS BEEN IN POWER FOR 13 YEARS!!!!!

I will give you one example, Anonymous | 5-May-2010 6:12 pm argues that under Tory rule, she was told we need the nurses but have no money to pay you. Out of a class of 32, 3 nurses were offered posts in our training hospital, the rest of us went far and wide I come from the north west and my first job was in London

Well when I qualified, UNDER LABOUR RULE, over 400 people were invited to trust wide interviews, they hired 23. Over half of those STILL had to wait until posts opened up!!!

And you think it was better under Conservative rule?

Are you insane?
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Anonymous | 5-May-2010 11:29 pm
We know that under tory 'rule' it would be a thousand times worse because we lived through a tory experience of utter devastation of communities and despair to change it.
and that doesn't excuse labour's outright lies and deceipt about iraq, and ridiculous micromanagement. however I want someone in the hot seat, making the decisions on my behalf who has a modicum of conscience, at the very least.
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Anonymous | 5-May-2010 11:43 pm
BTW I don't thing anon 6.12pm was supporting a tory perspective, I'm curious that you took that from the comment. I'm also curious about the number of insults you sling about in order to back up your comments. I don't think they have the effect you might want them to, it just detracts from having an interesting discussion.
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mike | 6-May-2010 10:23 am
Anonymous | 5-May-2010 11:43 pm, I didn't take that the above poster was supporting a Tory government, I just didn't understand how she thought the current situation (which is infinitely worse under labour) is any better instead of simply harking back to a party that was in power 15 years ago!

It is simply because I am so passionate this subject and it makes me really angry that some people essentially abuse their vote. For example, I have no problem with people supporting any particular party if they can argue that they believe in particular policies or issues and state why. What makes me angry are (as I have stated) people who vote blindly for a party out of loyalty or ridiculous notions of what a party was like in the past, those people who state 'I will never vote tory because I remember thatcher' or 'I've always voted Labour so I always will regardless!' It is simply a moronic way to vote. Parties change, they are not the same. If you want to argue the virtues of dichotomies, socialism versus capitalism for example, then that would be fine too, but people do not, they just say 'I remember what it was like...'!!! Also for example I have spoken to a couple of people who want to vote Lib Dem, which is fair enough, but when I asked them why neither had ANY clue about one single policy of the Lib Dems, they just liked Clegg in the debates! When we were discussing it I told one that Clegg for example wanted to take us wholly into Europe she declared she was never voting for him then!!! I have met one person who was voting BNP because (and I quote) 'it winds people up innit?' This is absolutely ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!

If someone wants to vote Labour, fine, but argue with me based on their policies, and their record over the last 13 years (the only party who you can judge on record is the current one).

If you don't want to vote Conservative, fine too, but argue with me on the policies that they have that you do not like.

For example, I do not like Labours policies on health because they have only offered pretty much more of the same of what I believe has been part of the major problems of the NHS over the past decade, (if anyone wants details, just ask) and I don't agree with their stance on many other issues.

The lib dems for example have a couple of problems on health which I like, such as scrapping strategic health authorities and capping managers pay, but I cannot bring myself to agree with their stance on every other issue from immigration to defence, so I can't vote for them.

The conservatives have policies on health that I like, such as scrapping targets and (if it becomes a policy) the above jobs guarantee, but some that I don't like, such as opening up the NHS to new independent and voluntary sector providers, but I like their stance on many other issues.

UKIP for example have a couple of policies that I do not like, such as wanting to scrap university training for Nursing students, but they have a lot of other great policies on health, and I like their stance on other issues.

I can get a lot more detailed and explain my thoughts in detail, but I have waffled on for a fair bit. But I think I have explained to you why I get so angry at some people.
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Jones Fredi | 6-May-2010 12:05 pm
To Mike, Sorry Mike you are missing the point.You say one cannot judge a party because of the past. If you graduate from any profesion, want to apply or move job areas from one place to another your new employer will always ask for your experience, track record. A poor track record experience giveS you little chance getting a new job. The Tories track record on the NHS is a disaster. What is in their manifestor does not convince me. David Cameron,George Osborne promised austerity measures, I see a mass redundancy of nurses, doctors if the conned party gets in. There is a urge difference of Tories NHS under the bad Thatcher days and the one today under labour. It was a sorry state NHS. Just to name a few achievements more than 90,000 of us have been trained under labour. It is better to have the training qualified for the job, wait for your own turn than without qualification as it was in the bad days.
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Jones Fredi | 6-May-2010 12:33 pm
To all nurses, Please go to the voting boot today and vote labour if you believe you want to continuesly secure your jobs. Remember do not bite the finger that feeds you.
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Anonymous | 6-May-2010 12:43 pm
To all nurses, Please go to the voting boot today and vote labour if you believe you want to continuesly secure your jobs. Remember I will not bite the finger that feeds me.

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mike | 6-May-2010 3:48 pm
To Jones Fredi, Sorry I found it a little difficult to understand what you were trying to get across there, but I certainly haven't missed any point.

I am not saying that a track record cannot be taken into consideration, what I am saying is it cannot be the whole reason, which is what many people are basing their voting on, and that annoys me. It is like me saying I will vote Lib Dem this time because the last liberal party in power under MacDonald in the 1920's were actually quite good! It is ridiculous!!!

For example, I will not be voting Labour this time because their track record of being in power over the last 13 years has been appalling and has led to real problems in the NHS, and their policies simply promise to continue the downward trend with nothing in their manifesto that explains how Nurses are supposed to deliver their grand promises, especially as in real terms they are cutting our wages and our numbers. There are already mass numbers of qualified Nurses out of work and struggling for a job, there have already been job freezes and they are coming again (my local hospital has started with voluntary redundancy packages last month), this is a LABOUR legacy. This however does not mean that I will never vote Labour in the future, as I will use a little intelligence and look at their policies then. Yes I may take their track record into consideration, but that does not mean I won't vote for them if I agree with their policies at the time.

Yet a lot of people simply say the Conservatives were bad under Thatcher so I will never vote Tory! That is the epitomy of short sighted idiocy in my opinion.

Yes the Conservatives track record (13 YEARS AGO) may have been bad, noone is disputing that, but you cannot say you will never vote Conservative again just based on that fact!

And I urge everyone go to the booths and vote, but not before you have read EVERY party manifesto! And that includes UKIP and the Green party!!! Don't just vote Labour out of habit.
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Anonymous | 6-May-2010 4:45 pm
In which universe should anybody be guaranteed a job at the end of a university course? One in which there is no competition and every (wo)man jack get's given a job irrespective of the employers need or their merit. If there is no job in the location you live,get on a bike.

Go and give your head a wobble and join the rest of society. Nurses are not special.
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mike | 7-May-2010 9:31 am
Anonymous | 6-May-2010 4:45 pm,

Your comments are wrong, ill informed and ridiculous.

Lets get down to the basics here.

Nurses ARE special!! Without us, the NHS would not work and every hospital would grind to a halt, no other medical profession can say that now.

Almost every single ward is performing at lower satffing levels than it should.

There is a mass shortage of WORKING Nurses and far too many patients that is only allowed to continue because of monetary concerns, not care issues. So the fact that there is no job in the area I live is wrong and should not be allowed to happen. I don't care about employers issues, the NHS should not be a buisness, it should not be an employer in the traditional buisness sense.

Healthcare is one of the primary pillars of any civilised nation. Nursing is not simply a job, it is not simply a buisness there to make money or a superfluous career. Like the Police/Schools/Military etc is a public service, it is a necessary service without which our civilisation would not be able to work.

Candidates are selected for their suitability before they start their course. The course weeds out (mostly) those who are not suitable. So those who pass through ARE suitable for employment.

So like the police and the military, once we have passed through the training, we should be not only allowed to practice, but EXPECTED to!!! The fact that we can't is ridiculous!
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Anonymous | 7-May-2010 2:13 pm
Like the Police/Schools/Military etc is a public service, it is a necessary service without which our civilisation would not be able to work.

Evidence for above? I'm sure we could get by without police and schools, probably the also the military. it would be a very different form of civilisation, probably a better than one where people whine at the government if everything doesn't work out perfectly.
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