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Future Forum nurse "shocked" by inconsistencies in training

  • 8 Comments

Shock has been expressed about the lack of continuing professional development for nurses in some parts of the NHS by a leading member of the NHS Future Forum.

Registered nurse Julie Moore, who is leading the forum’s work on education and training, also described a “patchiness” in the quality of training received by student nurses.

Ms Moore, who is also chief executive of University Hospitals Birmingham NHS Foundation Trust, wrote the Future Forum’s first report on education and training in the spring, based on consultation carried out during a pause in the progress of the government’s Health and Social Care Bill.

She told Nursing Times that in the earlier consultation “nurses were telling me about how little continuing development they had had, and I was quite amazed – shocked, really… I met some people that in 30 years who had had nothing”.

The forum heard that some nurses in primary care were receiving no development, particularly in smaller organisations. However, the picture across the country was mixed, with some saying they received a lot of development and support from their employers.

Ms Moore added that there was a similar inconsistency in the quality of training on offer for student nurses. “Some employers were quite concerned about the quality of the education, whereas others were quite delighted with it, which is pointing to a patchiness throughout,” she said.

Prime minister David Cameron announced a second wave of listening exercises on 18 August, covering four broad categories: education and training; public health; information; and integrated care.

The body’s membership has expanded from 42 to 53. Among the new additions is Jane Cummings, chief nurse and deputy chief executive of the North West Strategic Health Authority.

The forum will continue to be chaired by Steve Field, who led the first listening exercise. Its second phase is due to be finished by November or December, but unlike its first set of reports, its next set of recommendations is not expected to lead to further changes to the Health and Social Care Bill.

  • 8 Comments

Readers' comments (8)

  • Where's the shock? We've been complaining about this for a long time!

    Seriously though, what are the point of these ridiculous exercises if 'they are not expected to lead to further changes to the Health and Social Care Bill'?

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  • “patchiness” in the quality of training received by student nurses" .....err yes

    "about the lack of continuing professional development for nurses"....really?

    "She told Nursing Times that in the earlier consultation “nurses were telling me about how little continuing development they had had, and I was quite amazed – shocked, really… I met some people that in 30 years who had had nothing”."......ahh, she's a chief exec! possibly the first time she's spoken to a real, live nurse?

    "new additions is Jane Cummings, chief nurse and deputy chief executive of the North West Strategic Health Authority." ...maybe she can address the appalling post grad training in her own neck of the woods then?

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  • There needs to be a national post qualification education program which is linked to promotion - i.e. no band 7 without M.Sc. otherwise individuals and NHS trusts don't see any value in post qualification training and you are not rewarded with promotion so why bother - just stay in the same department for years and get promoted by your drinking buddies.

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  • Ha, Ha I have an MSc and couldn't even get a job in the NHS where I trained except as a basic bedside nurse with salary to match after 20 years experience!

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  • Anonymous | 28-Aug-2011 3:28 pm

    Post qualification education is extremely important.....to make you better at your job. If you do post quals solely for promotion, then there wouldn't be enough posts for all of us who take our ongoing education seriously. What needs to happen, is that all Nurses need to be paid what we are worth for all the training we do.

    I agree that there are some who end up in their jobs because of who they know, and don't deserve to be there. However, you don't need MSc to be a band 7. You just need to be a good nurse and manager.

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  • One reason I am in my post is because I was undergoing an MSc when I applied, or else I wouldn't have even had been offered an interview. My training was in the days of no diploma or degree. I am highly thought of and do my job very well. In view of this I have persuaded my head of dept to change the job description to 'degree or relevant clinical experience'. I didn't complete my MSc due to family illness, and had that been the case at the time of applying, I wouldn't have had the interview or the job. I managed to make my head of dept realise that they were excluding nurses with a wealth of experience, with updated knowledge, from applying for any future posts. It is extremely important for nurses to be given the opportunity to keep up to date throughout their career and it is appauling that there are no national standards, yet the NMC seem to expect this without any facilitation. It was so different under the GNC, where standards were national, I seem to remember.

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  • why were the GNC and national standards of training abolished? unlike the current system they seemed to be problem free and patients were far better cared for which presumably is the main aim of nurse training?

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  • I have a non nursing degree and a degrees worth of nursing modules in subjects directly related to primary care nursing. I have chosen to do them on my own initiative and only 2 have ever been funded for me. I have an M level module as well, but unfortunately there are too many managers and GPs who have little understanding of nursing ability and go off lower level generic qualifications fo nurses to even apply for some jobs.

    Nursing itself is a vastly varied career and sometimes a "one fits all" approach does not work. Time and time again I have wanted to do one course or another, only to find the institution behind it wants me to redo the othermodules in the collection because the outcomes are slightly different.

    It doesn't surprise me that a Chief Exec of nursing education has tunnel vision on supporting what the institutions provide because they want to dictate what nurses need and what they need to pay for that education.

    In a profession that is deemed to have lot of ageing but very able and experienced "advanced" nurses that have adapted and not sat back on their haunches (I know many have), I don't see how those nurses can now be forced to jump through hoops to get a piece of paper to show they can do what they are already doing.

    The GPs who employ me don't care a hoot if I do no professional development, so for years I have paid to do my own, but yet again "the system" gives me no support in moving on as they always refer me back to my employer for permission to do anything.

    I think the employers and managers need more training in many instances!!

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